Talking to some members of the audience as we mingled in the foyer of the Melbourne Convention Banquet Hall this evening, I was struck by the flavour of the occasion; zealous, fervent, expectant. Steve Maxwell, secretary of the Rationalist Association of NSW said he hoped the convention would “inspire a new awakening in Australia… this great awakening may actually shift people towards a secular Australia”. Another attendee, Nathan, talked about “the grandeur of science”, while yet another, Anthony, looked forward to hearing “the fire and brimstone” of Richard Dawkins.
If we owe one thing to religious culture, it’s our reliance on its language to come to our aid during those moments when we’re stretching to express our feelings of awe or wonder. Or even just of awesome solidarity. The exhilaration of so many like-minded people together in one room, so much shared purpose and togetherness. As David Nicholls, (president of the Atheist Foundation of Australia) noted in his opening address, atheists don’t get to be in the majority very often.
No, they don’t, and the Convention certainly intended to make the most of it, from the triumphant music that preceded the speeches, to the ritual ripping to shreds of religion at the hands of a bevy of comedians. Not that they weren’t funny (though they weren’t that funny), but at times, it seemed as though the joke was wearing a bit thin, even for the audience.
And therein lies a problem, perhaps. That despite all the terrible things we know about religion – the oppression of women, the pedophilia, the social control, the violence and cruelty perpetuated in the name of one faith or another – there’s a niggling truth that millions of good, decent, hard-working people around the world are sustained, guided, and comforted by their beliefs. Instead of merely bagging religion, maybe we should be trying to understand why this is so and what it says about us?
Hopefully, the convention will unfold a greater spirit of inquiry tomorrow.
It was a nice start to the convention. A good natured roasting of the religious, though I note that they went a bit light on the Muslims.
I did perceive a tone of seriousness particularly in Deveney’s show.
[...] Sue Ann Post and Catherine Deveney. It was a harsh roasting for which they have already being criticised for. But hey if you’re offended, really offended, bugger off it’s our [...]
A discussion of religion, superstitions, belief and ‘why’ is a focus of the presentation by Kylie Sturgess (hi!), on Sunday morning. Research stemming from a survey done in Queensland. :) See you there.
What does it say about us? Easy: Humans prefer simple soporifics that give them the illusion of control to the reality of the uncaring universe.
Sean, I noted too the almost exclusive reference to Christianity, as if atheism was a form of dialogue with Christianity, which it is in the West historically.
Fascinated by your idea of a ’simple soporific’ Mike.
You’re right. Millions of people are religious and most of them are good, kind, decent people The vast majority of atheists have no problem with these people, since they are similar to the vast majority of good, kind, decent atheists.
Unfortunately, there’s also whole bunches of the ungood, unkind, indecent religionists. Folks like Pope Benedict, who lies about condoms and AIDS because he thinks God doesn’t like condoms. Or the “Reverend” Fred Phelps, a homophobe convinced that God is also a homophobe. Or how about Ken Ham and John McKay, who don’t believe in evolution and don’t want anyone else to believe in it either.
When religion is free of these sorts of influences then atheists will be happy to let everyone believe or not believe as they desire. But when the Catholic Church has an official policy of protecting and supporting child rapists, then all those good, kind, decent Catholics should be reminded their hierarchy is more concerned with the Church’s prestige and dignity than in the welfare of children.
“Sean, I noted too the almost exclusive reference to Christianity, as if atheism was a form of dialogue with Christianity, which it is in the West historically.”
Well given you are reporting on western atheists, is it so surprising that Christianity, the dominant faith in the west, would come up so much in conversing with western atheists?
So, MikeTheInfidel, according to your view, the majority of people in this big wide world of ours are just plain stupid? And atheists (you included) are the only ones who really know what’s going on. I find that insulting to atheism.
Crackergate, I’m not in the least offended. Just putting some questions out there.
“So, MikeTheInfidel, according to your view, the majority of people in this big wide world of ours are just plain stupid? And atheists (you included) are the only ones who really know what’s going on. I find that insulting to atheism.”
You are wrong Gary, it is the religious who say; “we have the answers, we have the perfect moral code, we know what happens after we die, we know how the world was created, we know that there is a god, we know what this god want us to eat and who to sleep with and in what position, we know how the world will end”.
It is the atheist who says, “you don’t know and I don’t know either, we must continue the struggle to find these answers and not surrender the struggle with false appeals of ‘faith’”.
When someone is saying you could be wrong or you could be under a misapprehension, is not implying that they are saying that you are stupid, or any of those you have gathered to your side.
‘Insulting to atheism’, haha seriously. Atheism is no positive affirmation of what our worldview is. If he is a vegetarians, would his comment be insulting to vegetarians?
Hi Kylie. Looking forward to it.
Gary Bryson:
Instead of merely bagging religion, maybe we should be trying to understand why this is so and what it says about us?
Sorry, but I’ll continue to bag religion while it justifies child rape, suppression of women and gays and all the other heinous stuff that you seem to put to one side.
There are many good religious people, most religious are good in fact, but religion licenses so many abuses. Those people would be good without religion, without a doubt. Or are we to believe that they’re not really good people, but psycopaths who stay their murderous hand only because of the ever watching eye of a god? So, we should study religion to determine what it offers, then find secular versions of what people take from religion, without the terrible parts. Remember, religions are sets of ideas, beliefs, not people. They merit no respect for being ideas.
“That despite all the terrible things we know about religion – the oppression of women, the pedophilia, the social control, the violence and cruelty perpetuated in the name of one faith or another – there’s a niggling truth that millions of good, decent, hard-working people around the world are sustained, guided, and comforted by their beliefs.”
Truth has nothing to do with what is comforting. It might feel good to think you can’t be killed, for instance, but if you actually believe that and you try jumping off a cliff, it’s not such a good thing. The same is true of religion (take prayer healing or religious terrorists, for instance). The truth is ALWAYS better than lies, even if it’s not always the most comforting thing to believe.
Gary,
You are also missing the joy, personal peace and human purpose that the embrace of atheism provides. I was raised Protestant but was never fully at peace until I shed my dogmatic religious beliefs. For most, religion is a destination that pretends to have the answers to life’s important questions, even though we know that different present and past religions (arbitrarily classified as myths) provide different answers to these universal questions. Atheists, for the most part, recognize that answering these fundamental questions is a process and we strive to adopt an ethical and moral life while advancing our understanding of our place in the universe based on observation. Through this process I have found personal peace and purpose.
Herman Flinger
By the way, the “triumphant music” was the theme of the late Carl Sagan’s “Cosmos” series and was a nice, simple tribute to a great man – not the pretentious fanfare that you make it out to be.
“but at times, it seemed as though the joke was wearing a bit thin, even for the audience.
And therein lies a problem, perhaps.
…
there’s a niggling truth that millions of good, decent, hard-working people around the world are sustained, guided, and comforted by their beliefs.”
Right, jokes don’t ‘wear thin’ by themselves. All those atheists are just secretly feeling guilty, for hurting the feelings of people who aren’t even the butt of the joke.
“Instead of merely bagging religion, maybe we should be trying to understand why this is so and what it says about us?”
As if there’s some question as to why this is, or why it speaks poorly of us. The average armchair psychologist can adequately explain this phenomenon: the human capacity for self-deception, compartmentalisation and easily exploited pattern recognition, elicited under any number of negative emotional stimuli. Bada bing, baba boom, what you’ve got is a case of what we in the plumbing business call a, “coping mechanism”. Easily exasperated by early developmental influences. Parts and labour, I can fix it for $50.
Claiming that there’s any need for re-examination, or illuminating dialogue to be had on this subject, is either intellectually dishonest (‘best two out of three’), or naive in the extreme.
That despite all the terrible things we know about SMOKING – the lung cancer, the heart disease, the stained teeth, the noxious smell, the cigarette butts littering the streets, the bush fires caused by the casual toss of the still-burning butt out of the car window and the lies told in an effort to market it to a younger and younger audience – there’s a niggling truth that millions of good, decent, hard-working people around the world are sustained, guided, and comforted by their NICOTINE ADDICTION. Instead of merely bagging SMOKING, maybe we should be trying to understand why this is so and what it says about us?